Pratibha: I am interested or to know how to live peacefully with the corrupt dominating people in a society. They influenced everything/. In this situation what to do , Please suggest me
Dear Pratibha,
The Physical or the metaphysical world is structured to have positive, negative and neutral charges in it ,and every structure is constantly seeking its own equilibrium through a variety of combinations and permutations.
Living with corrupt people is part of existence, not that we have to agree with the ills of corruption, but we can be a part of it and effect changes in our own way. Non-Violent way is sustainable, where as the violent way is destructive for the time, but it is a part of the system.
Lord Krishna was clear when he said, whenever and wherever there is adharma, I will appear and restore the righteousness back to the society. It is not necessarily him in reality, but the spirituality is built on balance and justice and it works on an auto-pilot. Qur’aan says, to every nation, every tribe, God sends a peacemaker, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Krishna, Rama, Nanak, Buddha, Mahavir, Confucius, Zarthustra.... and numerous others in native traditions have precisely done that; restore the society back to normalcy.
From a political point of view, the colonial masters in most every colony were un-just, when the adharma and injustice reached a point of no-return; there was Gandhi, to restore it. When the American society was forced upon by a few masters to mistreat the African Americans, there was Lincoln and MLK to restore justness and morality.
Medha Parker stood up in defense of the villagers that were going to be affected by urbanization, there was Shabana Azmi fighting for the slum dwellers...Seshan fought the corrupt election system.
Justice and fairness is the ultimate of a balanced society, and every one including you and I are part of the solutions while some others may be doing the opposite of it.
Prophet Muhammad said, when you see injustice, the least you can do is to speak up. Martin Neimoller in his poem wrote, first they came for Jews and I did nothing about it, as I was not a Jew, then they came after Communists..... and finally when they came for me, there was no one to speak for me.
Pratibha, the least we can do is to speak up and if we have the energy and passion, apply it and build a momentum in the society. Yes, you can make the difference and you will, as you have the concern that is the first step. Co-existence must be at the bottom of every thing.
God bless you.
Mike Ghouse
www.FoundationforPluralism.com
Showing posts with label Pluralist-Mike-Ghouse. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Pluralist-Mike-Ghouse. Show all posts
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Pluralist
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Pluralist
Wednesday, December 24, 2008
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True God and Pluralism
Campbell asks about True God and Pluralism
How does a pluralist view things? If you have specific questions, please send to info@foundationforpluralism.com
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09/15/2008
Mike,
I hope you had a great weekend and I hope you and your family was safe from the Hurricane and devastation along the Texas coast. I want to say thank you for the kind wishes and comments on my face book. Not sure yet what I think of face book whether it is a useful tool to stay connected to people or a time waster. I guess time will tell.
I had a couple of questions I was pondering and thought I would ask your perspective. These questions are more from a pluralistic perspective vs. an Islamic perspective. As you know I am not a pluralist, but it certainly does help in understanding where others are coming from. So if you will further indulge me, I would appreciate it.
1) I am assuming that a Pluralist holds that there are many paths to God. Is that correct?
2) Can you be a pluralist and believe in one True God. Or better stated, that there is only one God? From my understanding a pluralist would believe that there would be many paths to that one God. Is that a correct understanding?
3) As a pluralist, is there any room for absolutes? For instance, is there any room to say that there is something always true regardless of time and other factors? Can something be universally true?
Just curious,
David Campbell
##
David,
Thanks for the email, here are the responses for your questions
1) I am assuming that a Pluralist holds that there are many paths to God. Is that correct?
Yes, each path is divine to the believer
2) Can you be a pluralist and believe in one True God. Or better stated, that there is only one God? From my understanding a pluralist would believe that there would be many paths to that one God. Is that a correct understanding?
David, Pluralism is an attitude of accepting other forms and other beliefs, as one accepts his or her own. The ultimate source of all cause and creation is one - the term "True God" bothers me, as though there is a false God. You are right, a pluralist Muslim, a pluralist Jews, a Pluralist Christian would honor other ways of worshipping the creator, and will not be arrogant to believe his is the only way.
3) As a pluralist, is there any room for absolutes? For instance, is there any room to say that there is something always true regardless of time and other factors? Can something be universally true?
Yes matter is universally true, there is a room for absolutes as much as there is a room for abstracts. However abstracts and beliefs are one's perspectives that work for the believer.
The natural tendency of anything life or matter is to seek balance. All religions consciously, divinely, mysteriously or deliberately are designed for that to bring a balance to the individual and balance with what surrounds him/her - life and matter. To believe one is superior or true is denying the other his or her right to believe and living with imbalance.
Hope this answers some of your questions
Mike Ghouse
##
Mike
Yes they do answer my questions, but perhaps raise others in their place. I, on the other hand am bothered if there is not a 'false god.' It would be of grave concern to me if I was worshipping 'a figment of my imagination.' If there was not a God who created all that exists and sustains that creation, I would kind of feel left adrift. If my goal is not offend another's beliefs then I have no problem with pluralism as a whole. But my goal is to worship and follow the God who does exist. If He does exist, then how does the creature have the right to tell the Creator what is and is not fair?
I guess I have a problem with being left to me being the one who chooses what is right for me or not. Where does one determine that it is ok to determine what works best for one's self? That sounds really good until you factor in the fact that there is a God who created the world. There is a universe that operates with a preciseness and exactness yet holds tremendous mystery. Just like in order for me to EXIST there has to be the possibility that I can NOT exist. Likewise with God if He exists then there is the possibility that He NOT exist. Therefore there can be a True God and by contrast a False God--or more plainly a non-god (a god that does not exist).
So if there is a True God and also a god's) that does not exist, would it not be possible to worship that which does not exist?
oh BTW, I think I have stated it but incase I did not. I am not really interested in telling another they are wrong or right or whatever, I believe that is left to God who makes that judgment. I am just curious how one operates in pluralism and how it affects the rest of life. As a Christian I cannot reason a person to God, it is God who makes that determination and it is God who woos a person to Himself. As a Christian I am to reflect His nature, His Character, and speak the truth in love, and proclaim his excellencies--the rest is up to Him. As I have said before, all men and women were created in the image of God and therefore by that fact alone are afforded the benefits of mutual dignity and respect. I believe that He gives purpose and He gives life and that apart from Him one cannot truly have life.
David Campbell
##
David,
Worshipping is a ritual embedded in religion. Feeling the presence of a higher power and understanding that every thing finds its own balance is spiritual. It is the freedom you feel when you feel you have a grasp of the nature and takes away your fears, even though you do not have complete answers to your fears and doubts.
The problem with most of us is giving a shape, a body, a physical presence to this “higher power”. Higher in this context is something that is beyond our understanding and has been around before we were aware of our existence and will continue to exist when we are gone.
If you see this power labeled as God in some comprehensible form, then you would be worshipping the figment of your imagination. Every religion emanates from the same fountain of wisdom, but I do know that Hindu, Jewish and Islamic scriptures do not give a form, shape, color, time or any sense of a being to that power. However, some people are pre-disposed to imagining “that power” in our own image, as the Bible points that God created us in his own image.
God does not have to be anything; God can be viewed as the energy that causes everything to be in place, sustain it and bring about a balance.
Prayers are an expression of gratitude to such a thing; they are legitimate sentiments and produce a balance in you, as much as repentance and forgiveness lifts you up.
The act of ‘balancing it out’ is your own, as there are 7 billion other acts performed simultaneously. Feel confident that you are in balance, free from hate, jealousy, anger, and ill-will and loaded with goodwill, charity and kindness towards other. This is what every religion does to us, each way is legitimate and none is wrong.
Let me take a step further, the animist, Wiccan, the pagans and others are as right as the Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Bahai’s, Sikhs or any one is. It is arrogant of us to believe that they worship false God; it is not to them, even if you consider that they worship an idol. The act of worship is a self balancing act. Each one of the system does the same to allay human confusion and give hope and sense of security that everything is going to be alright.
Please ponder over this. No one has to be wrong for you or me to be right. We are wrong only when we deflect that balance; rob from others what is legitimately theirs, forcibly taking others space, grabbing others food and hurting the loved ones. Again, God is about balance in life and it can hit your imagination the way you are conditioned.
I reiterate that my path, Islam is a familiar path to me to keep my balance and it works for me, as your path works for you. Neither is superior or inferior, it is just a different faith bud.
Mike Ghouse
Our Mission is to encourage individuals to develop an open mind and an open heart toward their follow beings. If we can learn to accept and respect the God given uniqueness of each one of the 7 billion of us, then conflicts fade and solutions emerge. We believe that knowledge leads to understanding and understanding to acceptance and appreciation of a different point of view.
Workshops Seminars Education News Letters
Foundation for Pluralism, Studies in Religious Pluralism & Pluralistic Societies
2665 Villa Creek Dr, Suite 206, Dallas, TX 75234 (214) 325-1916
.
How does a pluralist view things? If you have specific questions, please send to info@foundationforpluralism.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
09/15/2008
Mike,
I hope you had a great weekend and I hope you and your family was safe from the Hurricane and devastation along the Texas coast. I want to say thank you for the kind wishes and comments on my face book. Not sure yet what I think of face book whether it is a useful tool to stay connected to people or a time waster. I guess time will tell.
I had a couple of questions I was pondering and thought I would ask your perspective. These questions are more from a pluralistic perspective vs. an Islamic perspective. As you know I am not a pluralist, but it certainly does help in understanding where others are coming from. So if you will further indulge me, I would appreciate it.
1) I am assuming that a Pluralist holds that there are many paths to God. Is that correct?
2) Can you be a pluralist and believe in one True God. Or better stated, that there is only one God? From my understanding a pluralist would believe that there would be many paths to that one God. Is that a correct understanding?
3) As a pluralist, is there any room for absolutes? For instance, is there any room to say that there is something always true regardless of time and other factors? Can something be universally true?
Just curious,
David Campbell
##
David,
Thanks for the email, here are the responses for your questions
1) I am assuming that a Pluralist holds that there are many paths to God. Is that correct?
Yes, each path is divine to the believer
2) Can you be a pluralist and believe in one True God. Or better stated, that there is only one God? From my understanding a pluralist would believe that there would be many paths to that one God. Is that a correct understanding?
David, Pluralism is an attitude of accepting other forms and other beliefs, as one accepts his or her own. The ultimate source of all cause and creation is one - the term "True God" bothers me, as though there is a false God. You are right, a pluralist Muslim, a pluralist Jews, a Pluralist Christian would honor other ways of worshipping the creator, and will not be arrogant to believe his is the only way.
3) As a pluralist, is there any room for absolutes? For instance, is there any room to say that there is something always true regardless of time and other factors? Can something be universally true?
Yes matter is universally true, there is a room for absolutes as much as there is a room for abstracts. However abstracts and beliefs are one's perspectives that work for the believer.
The natural tendency of anything life or matter is to seek balance. All religions consciously, divinely, mysteriously or deliberately are designed for that to bring a balance to the individual and balance with what surrounds him/her - life and matter. To believe one is superior or true is denying the other his or her right to believe and living with imbalance.
Hope this answers some of your questions
Mike Ghouse
##
Mike
Yes they do answer my questions, but perhaps raise others in their place. I, on the other hand am bothered if there is not a 'false god.' It would be of grave concern to me if I was worshipping 'a figment of my imagination.' If there was not a God who created all that exists and sustains that creation, I would kind of feel left adrift. If my goal is not offend another's beliefs then I have no problem with pluralism as a whole. But my goal is to worship and follow the God who does exist. If He does exist, then how does the creature have the right to tell the Creator what is and is not fair?
I guess I have a problem with being left to me being the one who chooses what is right for me or not. Where does one determine that it is ok to determine what works best for one's self? That sounds really good until you factor in the fact that there is a God who created the world. There is a universe that operates with a preciseness and exactness yet holds tremendous mystery. Just like in order for me to EXIST there has to be the possibility that I can NOT exist. Likewise with God if He exists then there is the possibility that He NOT exist. Therefore there can be a True God and by contrast a False God--or more plainly a non-god (a god that does not exist).
So if there is a True God and also a god's) that does not exist, would it not be possible to worship that which does not exist?
oh BTW, I think I have stated it but incase I did not. I am not really interested in telling another they are wrong or right or whatever, I believe that is left to God who makes that judgment. I am just curious how one operates in pluralism and how it affects the rest of life. As a Christian I cannot reason a person to God, it is God who makes that determination and it is God who woos a person to Himself. As a Christian I am to reflect His nature, His Character, and speak the truth in love, and proclaim his excellencies--the rest is up to Him. As I have said before, all men and women were created in the image of God and therefore by that fact alone are afforded the benefits of mutual dignity and respect. I believe that He gives purpose and He gives life and that apart from Him one cannot truly have life.
David Campbell
##
David,
Worshipping is a ritual embedded in religion. Feeling the presence of a higher power and understanding that every thing finds its own balance is spiritual. It is the freedom you feel when you feel you have a grasp of the nature and takes away your fears, even though you do not have complete answers to your fears and doubts.
The problem with most of us is giving a shape, a body, a physical presence to this “higher power”. Higher in this context is something that is beyond our understanding and has been around before we were aware of our existence and will continue to exist when we are gone.
If you see this power labeled as God in some comprehensible form, then you would be worshipping the figment of your imagination. Every religion emanates from the same fountain of wisdom, but I do know that Hindu, Jewish and Islamic scriptures do not give a form, shape, color, time or any sense of a being to that power. However, some people are pre-disposed to imagining “that power” in our own image, as the Bible points that God created us in his own image.
God does not have to be anything; God can be viewed as the energy that causes everything to be in place, sustain it and bring about a balance.
Prayers are an expression of gratitude to such a thing; they are legitimate sentiments and produce a balance in you, as much as repentance and forgiveness lifts you up.
The act of ‘balancing it out’ is your own, as there are 7 billion other acts performed simultaneously. Feel confident that you are in balance, free from hate, jealousy, anger, and ill-will and loaded with goodwill, charity and kindness towards other. This is what every religion does to us, each way is legitimate and none is wrong.
Let me take a step further, the animist, Wiccan, the pagans and others are as right as the Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Bahai’s, Sikhs or any one is. It is arrogant of us to believe that they worship false God; it is not to them, even if you consider that they worship an idol. The act of worship is a self balancing act. Each one of the system does the same to allay human confusion and give hope and sense of security that everything is going to be alright.
Please ponder over this. No one has to be wrong for you or me to be right. We are wrong only when we deflect that balance; rob from others what is legitimately theirs, forcibly taking others space, grabbing others food and hurting the loved ones. Again, God is about balance in life and it can hit your imagination the way you are conditioned.
I reiterate that my path, Islam is a familiar path to me to keep my balance and it works for me, as your path works for you. Neither is superior or inferior, it is just a different faith bud.
Mike Ghouse
Our Mission is to encourage individuals to develop an open mind and an open heart toward their follow beings. If we can learn to accept and respect the God given uniqueness of each one of the 7 billion of us, then conflicts fade and solutions emerge. We believe that knowledge leads to understanding and understanding to acceptance and appreciation of a different point of view.
Workshops Seminars Education News Letters
Foundation for Pluralism, Studies in Religious Pluralism & Pluralistic Societies
2665 Villa Creek Dr, Suite 206, Dallas, TX 75234 (214) 325-1916
.
Jesus says no man comes to father except through me
Jesus says no man comes to father except through me
Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me.
An exchange of thoughts between David Campbell and Mike Ghouse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David,
I am glad you say this " I thank you very much as your questions have helped solidify in my mind that Jesus is who He says He is. He truly is God. My prayer and hope for you is that He would reveal Himself to you and that through Him you would find peace in His name. May God bless you with abundant life in Jesus."
David, Jesus is truly a God to "you" and those "who believe". Please follow the teachings of Jesus, as it brings peace to you as an individual, brings comfort in the moments of difficulty, joy in the moments of happiness.
I honor your belief and hope you would honor fifty other ways of believing or not believing in the creator.
Like wise, Hindus, Muslims, Jews and other have their own set of beliefs and each is legitimate to the believer. Jesus is part of my life in my own way, his teachings of forgiveness, love thy neighbor and turning the other cheek are part of me, as the teachings of Mohammad, Krishna, Buddha and others are. They all loved us and wanted us to lead a life of peace within and with others. Each belief is valid.
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, and I would add, faith is in the heart of the believer. No one needs to change their faith, it is not needed, unless it is a want.
God bless you.
Mike Ghouse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DAVID CAMPBELL WRITES:
Thank you so much for being willing to discuss this matter with me. I see that you are a very educated and intelligent man. I cannot say that I am either. I have not finished college and really have been fairly limited in my exposure to the world around me. I hope you will bear with me in my questions and do not perceive me as too much the buffoon.
I would agree with you 100% that one should do good to others, regardless of race, creed, religion, nationality, etc. As a Christian I believe that all people were created in the image of God and therefore are entitled to the dignity that lies inherent in that state. I would also agree with you that clergy very much twist to sustain their position(s). There has been much harm done in the world because of this.
I can see your point as to why one would follow your heart. It would seem that because you can't trust fallen people there must be something that we can trust. However, if we make it one's heart or feelings that we follow are we not placing ourselves in the place of God? I cannot act on every feeling I have or else I could potentially infringe on someone else. Take a child for instance who feels that they want a toy that another is playing with and tries to take it and is denied and then takes a block and clubs the other kid in the head. In this instance following ones heart in the purest of form cannot be right. The child has not been taught by clergy or anyone. It is that our nature is ultimately fallen and is in need of a redeemer. Someone who will make us new from the inside.
If Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me." In pluralism, can that be true while another believes there is another way to heaven?
Again thank you so much for your willingness to discuss this with me.
David Campbell
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David
You asked "If Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me." In pluralism, can that be true while another believes there is another way to heaven? "
We cannot reduce Jesus to be a clansman, we cannot reduce him to be the shepherd of a specific tribe, he was indeed, the man and the teacher to the whole universe and that message "through me" was meant for all people on the earth. And it meant following his teachings and not the utterance of the words, a parrot can do that without knowing what it means.
1) turn the other cheek, meaning when some one eggs you to fight, you do not aggravate the situation further by falling prey and retaliate, instead you find means to mitigate the conflict.
2) Forgive - by forgiving one becomes free or else one is bonded in eternal slavery... if you don't forgive, each time the name of that person comes up, or every time you see that man, your blood boils, by forgiving, you have freed yourselves.
3) Love thy neighbor... means accept the other person with his own uniqueness, as long as that person is not robbing you, not hurting you, you can accept him for who he is. God created you both, and you have to appreciate and respect his will.
When Jesus says "through me", we have a choice to reduce his message to the words it is contained in and understand that "through his physical person or his word" alone, one gets access to God.
Those who want to monopolize the business of religion, will bottle up Jesus in words, those who are spiritualists, will understand the message rather than blindly follow the words.
Jesus is one of my spiritual Masters and there are several great masters, every one of them loved us, they loved us and wanted us to at peace within and with others. As a Muslim I love the teachings of Jesus, and as a human, I value this teachings and every masters teachings.
They did not intend to brand us into a different breed of cattle, they intended us to be good beings.
Mike Ghouse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 9/8/2008 1:38:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, David B Campbell writes:
Mike,
Thank you so much for being willing to discuss this matter with me. I see that you are a very educated and intelligent man. I cannot say that I am either. I have not finished college and really have been fairly limited in my exposure to the world around me. I hope you will bear with me in my questions and do not perceive me as too much the buffoon.
I would agree with you 100% that one should do good to others, regardless of race, creed, religion, nationality, etc. As a Christian I believe that all people were created in the image of God and therefore are entitled to the dignity that lies inherent in that state. I would also agree with you that clergy very much twist to sustain their position's). There has been much harm done in the world because of this.
I can see your point as to why one would follow your heart. It would seem that because you can't trust fallen people there must be something that we can trust. However, if we make it one's heart or feelings that we follow are we not placing ourselves in the place of God? I cannot act on every feeling I have or else I could potentially infringe on someone else. Take a child for instance who feels that they want a toy that another is playing with and tries to take it and is denied and then takes a block and clubs the other kid in the head. In this instance following ones heart in the purest of form cannot be right. The child has not been taught by clergy or anyone. It is that our nature is ultimately fallen and is in need of a redeemer. Someone who will make us new from the inside.
If Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me." In pluralism, can that be true while another believes there is another way to heaven?
Again thank you so much for your willingness to discuss this with me.
David Campbell
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 12:54 PM,wrote:
Dear David,
If we can learn to accept and respect every which way one appreciates the causer and sustainer of our lives, calling that cause "God or whatever name one is taught", and respect those who do not give any special significance to that creator but accept that there is a cause for creation, then we can have a world of co-existence with least conflict.
The purpose of the religion is not to create God in our imaginations, but rather help each one of us understand the complexities of creation, destruction and sustenance and how to keep our balance, our equilibrium that we can survive for the amount of time written on our chip (sperm/egg) with least variations and how we can keep that balance with fellow beings and the environment.
I am setting up a few workshops in Pluralism, where every one is open to ask any question and also a few workshops on Islam... I will update you about it and will be happy to answer all your questions.
It is a requirement for a Muslim to acknowledge every master who existed to teach us learn the ropes of life and live a balanced life. An infinite number is given as 124,000 such teachers (prophets), and 25 of them have been mentioned by name - 24 are Biblical teachers. Mary is considered the woman of highest honor in Islam a model of purity to follow, Jesus is the star in Islam who brings the good news and foretells that message will be completed by Prophet Muhammad.
In the imaginary seven layers of heaven, one is managed by Jesus.
David, all religions are beautiful, it is the politics of gaining resources, influence and control that makes the guardians of religion (clergy) twist it to suit their unreligious desires. A good Christian is a good Muslims, is a good Jew, is a good Hindu and a good human being.
Don't go by what the clergy say, they have a vested interest in keeping religion as their business. It is the sources of their livelihood. Go by what your hearts say - the feeling a crying and hungry baby generates in you and the subsequent action is the essence of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and every religion. But if you think that baby is a Jew or a Muslim or a.... and you withdraw the action, then you are acting under the influence of religions run by the owners of that business side of their religion.
If you don't feel any emotions when a Palestinian is shot and stain God's name to justify your business of religion, then you are not a Christian as Jesus wanted you to be or when you rejoice when a Christian or an American is killed, you cannot be a Muslim, even though you wear the label on you.
Please visit the website www.worldmuslimcongress.com and read the mission statement, the very first item on the text area... that is Islam.
Mike Ghouse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:25:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time, David Campbell writes:
Mike,
I came across your email address by your Dallas Muslim Blog. I am assuming by your blog that you are Muslim. I cannot say I know very much about Islam except perhaps what I see and read in the news which I fear is either inaccurate or at least somewhat biased. I am assuming that if that happens in my faith as a follower of Jesus it probably happens to those who are Muslim.
I have many questions about Islam but really do not know where to begin. Many of my questions revolve around how Muslim's regard Jesus (Issa). I am not sure if you would be open to me asking you questions and perhaps engaging in a discussion. I am not interested in an argument or to ridicule anyone (or be ridiculed) but I would like to know more of what you believe, share what I believe, and that should I find that I am holding onto faulty notions I can let go of those and only follow what is True.
I understand that Muslim's believe in the unity or Oneness of God. I, too believe that God is One. Yet I believe that God is made of 3 yet one. For instance we all believe in the concept of Time. Time is made of Past, Present, and Future. Each element fully considered time and each element fulfills a certain role within Time. Space also is an example made up of height, width, and depth. Matter is yet another example made of solid, liquid, and gas. All elements of a trinity are complete and yet distinct. God is a Trinity being God the Father, God The Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
I understand that God is completely Holy and unknowable. I believe that as well, unless God has chosen, in His sovereignty to reveal Himself to His creation. I also believe that God is SO HOLY that people, who are sinners by nature cannot approach Him unless there is something to make atonement for the sin that has been committed. In old days there was a sacrificial lamb that was presented as a continuing offering for the sin of people. That lamb was a picture of what God was painting for His ultimate Lamb who would take away the sins of the world, namely Jesus. Because God took on flesh and lived as a man, He lives a perfect life and lived the life that we could not live and died the death that we should have died. God poured out His wrath on Jesus (on Himself) and thereby kept His word that sin requires death but paid a sufficient price to reconcile us to Him. The wrath of God was satisfied on the body of Jesus.
You see at the end of the day I would be happy to work to earn God's favor but also deep down when I am by myself and there is no one left to pretend to, I know how wicked I really am. I know that I do not worship God like He deserves to be worshipped. For instance if my goal is Heaven then that means I desire Heaven more than God and therefore I am worshipping something more than I am worshipping God. If I desire to escape punishment then my goal is really comfort and I am really worshipped comfort. I know that no matter how good I may try to be that at the end of the day I cannot be good enough to satisfy this Holy God. I want to. But thanks be to God through Christ Jesus that He has paid the price and I can rest on His sufficiency and His sacrifice know that God looks at me and sees the price that Jesus paid. Because the ultimate questions is 'how can a holy God let any corrupted people into His presence?' Ultimately I believe that my faith answers how a sinful fallen person can be reconciled to God and have God still remain Holy and Just.
I freely admit that there have been horrible atrocities committed by those who call themselves Christians and followers of Jesus. I also freely admit that much of what the West terms as Christianity is probably at best an aberration. I was just wondering if you would not mind sharing with me a little about your faith and correct me where you feel I have misunderstood.
In Much Respect,
David Campbell
YOUR COMMENTS ON PLURALISM
Our Mission is to encourage individuals to develop an open mind and an open heart toward their follow beings. If we can learn to accept and respect the God given uniqueness of each one of the 7 billion of us, then conflicts fade and solutions emerge. We believe that knowledge leads to understanding and understanding to acceptance and appreciation of a different point of view.
Workshops Seminars Education News Letters
Foundation for Pluralism, Studies in Religious Pluralism & Pluralistic Societies
2665 Villa Creek Dr, Suite 206, Dallas, TX 75234 (214) 325-1916
Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me.
An exchange of thoughts between David Campbell and Mike Ghouse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David,
I am glad you say this " I thank you very much as your questions have helped solidify in my mind that Jesus is who He says He is. He truly is God. My prayer and hope for you is that He would reveal Himself to you and that through Him you would find peace in His name. May God bless you with abundant life in Jesus."
David, Jesus is truly a God to "you" and those "who believe". Please follow the teachings of Jesus, as it brings peace to you as an individual, brings comfort in the moments of difficulty, joy in the moments of happiness.
I honor your belief and hope you would honor fifty other ways of believing or not believing in the creator.
Like wise, Hindus, Muslims, Jews and other have their own set of beliefs and each is legitimate to the believer. Jesus is part of my life in my own way, his teachings of forgiveness, love thy neighbor and turning the other cheek are part of me, as the teachings of Mohammad, Krishna, Buddha and others are. They all loved us and wanted us to lead a life of peace within and with others. Each belief is valid.
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, and I would add, faith is in the heart of the believer. No one needs to change their faith, it is not needed, unless it is a want.
God bless you.
Mike Ghouse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DAVID CAMPBELL WRITES:
Thank you so much for being willing to discuss this matter with me. I see that you are a very educated and intelligent man. I cannot say that I am either. I have not finished college and really have been fairly limited in my exposure to the world around me. I hope you will bear with me in my questions and do not perceive me as too much the buffoon.
I would agree with you 100% that one should do good to others, regardless of race, creed, religion, nationality, etc. As a Christian I believe that all people were created in the image of God and therefore are entitled to the dignity that lies inherent in that state. I would also agree with you that clergy very much twist to sustain their position(s). There has been much harm done in the world because of this.
I can see your point as to why one would follow your heart. It would seem that because you can't trust fallen people there must be something that we can trust. However, if we make it one's heart or feelings that we follow are we not placing ourselves in the place of God? I cannot act on every feeling I have or else I could potentially infringe on someone else. Take a child for instance who feels that they want a toy that another is playing with and tries to take it and is denied and then takes a block and clubs the other kid in the head. In this instance following ones heart in the purest of form cannot be right. The child has not been taught by clergy or anyone. It is that our nature is ultimately fallen and is in need of a redeemer. Someone who will make us new from the inside.
If Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me." In pluralism, can that be true while another believes there is another way to heaven?
Again thank you so much for your willingness to discuss this with me.
David Campbell
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David
You asked "If Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me." In pluralism, can that be true while another believes there is another way to heaven? "
We cannot reduce Jesus to be a clansman, we cannot reduce him to be the shepherd of a specific tribe, he was indeed, the man and the teacher to the whole universe and that message "through me" was meant for all people on the earth. And it meant following his teachings and not the utterance of the words, a parrot can do that without knowing what it means.
1) turn the other cheek, meaning when some one eggs you to fight, you do not aggravate the situation further by falling prey and retaliate, instead you find means to mitigate the conflict.
2) Forgive - by forgiving one becomes free or else one is bonded in eternal slavery... if you don't forgive, each time the name of that person comes up, or every time you see that man, your blood boils, by forgiving, you have freed yourselves.
3) Love thy neighbor... means accept the other person with his own uniqueness, as long as that person is not robbing you, not hurting you, you can accept him for who he is. God created you both, and you have to appreciate and respect his will.
When Jesus says "through me", we have a choice to reduce his message to the words it is contained in and understand that "through his physical person or his word" alone, one gets access to God.
Those who want to monopolize the business of religion, will bottle up Jesus in words, those who are spiritualists, will understand the message rather than blindly follow the words.
Jesus is one of my spiritual Masters and there are several great masters, every one of them loved us, they loved us and wanted us to at peace within and with others. As a Muslim I love the teachings of Jesus, and as a human, I value this teachings and every masters teachings.
They did not intend to brand us into a different breed of cattle, they intended us to be good beings.
Mike Ghouse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 9/8/2008 1:38:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, David B Campbell writes:
Mike,
Thank you so much for being willing to discuss this matter with me. I see that you are a very educated and intelligent man. I cannot say that I am either. I have not finished college and really have been fairly limited in my exposure to the world around me. I hope you will bear with me in my questions and do not perceive me as too much the buffoon.
I would agree with you 100% that one should do good to others, regardless of race, creed, religion, nationality, etc. As a Christian I believe that all people were created in the image of God and therefore are entitled to the dignity that lies inherent in that state. I would also agree with you that clergy very much twist to sustain their position's). There has been much harm done in the world because of this.
I can see your point as to why one would follow your heart. It would seem that because you can't trust fallen people there must be something that we can trust. However, if we make it one's heart or feelings that we follow are we not placing ourselves in the place of God? I cannot act on every feeling I have or else I could potentially infringe on someone else. Take a child for instance who feels that they want a toy that another is playing with and tries to take it and is denied and then takes a block and clubs the other kid in the head. In this instance following ones heart in the purest of form cannot be right. The child has not been taught by clergy or anyone. It is that our nature is ultimately fallen and is in need of a redeemer. Someone who will make us new from the inside.
If Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me." In pluralism, can that be true while another believes there is another way to heaven?
Again thank you so much for your willingness to discuss this with me.
David Campbell
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 12:54 PM,
Dear David,
If we can learn to accept and respect every which way one appreciates the causer and sustainer of our lives, calling that cause "God or whatever name one is taught", and respect those who do not give any special significance to that creator but accept that there is a cause for creation, then we can have a world of co-existence with least conflict.
The purpose of the religion is not to create God in our imaginations, but rather help each one of us understand the complexities of creation, destruction and sustenance and how to keep our balance, our equilibrium that we can survive for the amount of time written on our chip (sperm/egg) with least variations and how we can keep that balance with fellow beings and the environment.
I am setting up a few workshops in Pluralism, where every one is open to ask any question and also a few workshops on Islam... I will update you about it and will be happy to answer all your questions.
It is a requirement for a Muslim to acknowledge every master who existed to teach us learn the ropes of life and live a balanced life. An infinite number is given as 124,000 such teachers (prophets), and 25 of them have been mentioned by name - 24 are Biblical teachers. Mary is considered the woman of highest honor in Islam a model of purity to follow, Jesus is the star in Islam who brings the good news and foretells that message will be completed by Prophet Muhammad.
In the imaginary seven layers of heaven, one is managed by Jesus.
David, all religions are beautiful, it is the politics of gaining resources, influence and control that makes the guardians of religion (clergy) twist it to suit their unreligious desires. A good Christian is a good Muslims, is a good Jew, is a good Hindu and a good human being.
Don't go by what the clergy say, they have a vested interest in keeping religion as their business. It is the sources of their livelihood. Go by what your hearts say - the feeling a crying and hungry baby generates in you and the subsequent action is the essence of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and every religion. But if you think that baby is a Jew or a Muslim or a.... and you withdraw the action, then you are acting under the influence of religions run by the owners of that business side of their religion.
If you don't feel any emotions when a Palestinian is shot and stain God's name to justify your business of religion, then you are not a Christian as Jesus wanted you to be or when you rejoice when a Christian or an American is killed, you cannot be a Muslim, even though you wear the label on you.
Please visit the website www.worldmuslimcongress.com and read the mission statement, the very first item on the text area... that is Islam.
Mike Ghouse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:25:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time, David Campbell writes:
Mike,
I came across your email address by your Dallas Muslim Blog. I am assuming by your blog that you are Muslim. I cannot say I know very much about Islam except perhaps what I see and read in the news which I fear is either inaccurate or at least somewhat biased. I am assuming that if that happens in my faith as a follower of Jesus it probably happens to those who are Muslim.
I have many questions about Islam but really do not know where to begin. Many of my questions revolve around how Muslim's regard Jesus (Issa). I am not sure if you would be open to me asking you questions and perhaps engaging in a discussion. I am not interested in an argument or to ridicule anyone (or be ridiculed) but I would like to know more of what you believe, share what I believe, and that should I find that I am holding onto faulty notions I can let go of those and only follow what is True.
I understand that Muslim's believe in the unity or Oneness of God. I, too believe that God is One. Yet I believe that God is made of 3 yet one. For instance we all believe in the concept of Time. Time is made of Past, Present, and Future. Each element fully considered time and each element fulfills a certain role within Time. Space also is an example made up of height, width, and depth. Matter is yet another example made of solid, liquid, and gas. All elements of a trinity are complete and yet distinct. God is a Trinity being God the Father, God The Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
I understand that God is completely Holy and unknowable. I believe that as well, unless God has chosen, in His sovereignty to reveal Himself to His creation. I also believe that God is SO HOLY that people, who are sinners by nature cannot approach Him unless there is something to make atonement for the sin that has been committed. In old days there was a sacrificial lamb that was presented as a continuing offering for the sin of people. That lamb was a picture of what God was painting for His ultimate Lamb who would take away the sins of the world, namely Jesus. Because God took on flesh and lived as a man, He lives a perfect life and lived the life that we could not live and died the death that we should have died. God poured out His wrath on Jesus (on Himself) and thereby kept His word that sin requires death but paid a sufficient price to reconcile us to Him. The wrath of God was satisfied on the body of Jesus.
You see at the end of the day I would be happy to work to earn God's favor but also deep down when I am by myself and there is no one left to pretend to, I know how wicked I really am. I know that I do not worship God like He deserves to be worshipped. For instance if my goal is Heaven then that means I desire Heaven more than God and therefore I am worshipping something more than I am worshipping God. If I desire to escape punishment then my goal is really comfort and I am really worshipped comfort. I know that no matter how good I may try to be that at the end of the day I cannot be good enough to satisfy this Holy God. I want to. But thanks be to God through Christ Jesus that He has paid the price and I can rest on His sufficiency and His sacrifice know that God looks at me and sees the price that Jesus paid. Because the ultimate questions is 'how can a holy God let any corrupted people into His presence?' Ultimately I believe that my faith answers how a sinful fallen person can be reconciled to God and have God still remain Holy and Just.
I freely admit that there have been horrible atrocities committed by those who call themselves Christians and followers of Jesus. I also freely admit that much of what the West terms as Christianity is probably at best an aberration. I was just wondering if you would not mind sharing with me a little about your faith and correct me where you feel I have misunderstood.
In Much Respect,
David Campbell
YOUR COMMENTS ON PLURALISM
Our Mission is to encourage individuals to develop an open mind and an open heart toward their follow beings. If we can learn to accept and respect the God given uniqueness of each one of the 7 billion of us, then conflicts fade and solutions emerge. We believe that knowledge leads to understanding and understanding to acceptance and appreciation of a different point of view.
Workshops Seminars Education News Letters
Foundation for Pluralism, Studies in Religious Pluralism & Pluralistic Societies
2665 Villa Creek Dr, Suite 206, Dallas, TX 75234 (214) 325-1916
My Religion is superior
My Creed is superior
How does a pluralist view things? If you have specific questions, please send to info@foundationforpluralism.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mathew Feldman writes;
I'm with you.
My personal failing is how sensitive I am to the chauvinism (this need to be certain, and sometimes assert, that one's creed is superior to others'). I always say that no one, or group, has a monopoly on Truth. So I most admire religious people who simply encourage others in their spirituality, as opposed to advocating any particular path.
I was raised in a fairly secular Jewish home, I have a set of fundamentalist Xian grandparents, and I am married to a Baha'i woman who comes from a pretty religious family. I'm covering all the bases ;-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Ghouse responds;
Matthew Good for you, you are indeed covered.
Let me make a statement, that I have made before and had to do a lot of explaining to my Imams, fortunately, they have silently agreed to it.
" My faith Islam is dear to me, it works for me, when I am happy, I am trained to say thanks (prayer) the Islamic way, it gives me the comfort and when I am sad, I know I have to express that to the creator"
" However, I will not claim that this is the only way to find nirvana, salvation, release or Mukti, each faith brings that to the believer of that faith".
"To claim my faith is superior, is sheer arrogance, and arrogance and spirituality are mutually exclusive, and are inversely proportional to each other".
" the idea of claming superiority and exclusivity beats the very purpose of religion, to build harmony through justice, you cannot build harmony when you consider others faith to be incomplete, deficient or down right false, as it creates conflict and arrogance, does not acknowledge the otherness of the other, hence irreligious.
I invite people of all faiths to make that declaration, then we have an attitude of acceptance of the other and peace becomes imminent.
YOUR COMMENTS ON PLURALISM
Our Mission is to encourage individuals to develop an open mind and an open heart toward their follow beings. If we can learn to accept and respect the God given uniqueness of each one of the 7 billion of us, then conflicts fade and solutions emerge. We believe that knowledge leads to understanding and understanding to acceptance and appreciation of a different point of view.
Workshops Seminars Education News Letters
Foundation for Pluralism, Studies in Religious Pluralism & Pluralistic Societies
2665 Villa Creek Dr, Suite 206, Dallas, TX 75234 (214) 325-1916
How does a pluralist view things? If you have specific questions, please send to info@foundationforpluralism.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mathew Feldman writes;
I'm with you.
My personal failing is how sensitive I am to the chauvinism (this need to be certain, and sometimes assert, that one's creed is superior to others'). I always say that no one, or group, has a monopoly on Truth. So I most admire religious people who simply encourage others in their spirituality, as opposed to advocating any particular path.
I was raised in a fairly secular Jewish home, I have a set of fundamentalist Xian grandparents, and I am married to a Baha'i woman who comes from a pretty religious family. I'm covering all the bases ;-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Ghouse responds;
Matthew Good for you, you are indeed covered.
Let me make a statement, that I have made before and had to do a lot of explaining to my Imams, fortunately, they have silently agreed to it.
" My faith Islam is dear to me, it works for me, when I am happy, I am trained to say thanks (prayer) the Islamic way, it gives me the comfort and when I am sad, I know I have to express that to the creator"
" However, I will not claim that this is the only way to find nirvana, salvation, release or Mukti, each faith brings that to the believer of that faith".
"To claim my faith is superior, is sheer arrogance, and arrogance and spirituality are mutually exclusive, and are inversely proportional to each other".
" the idea of claming superiority and exclusivity beats the very purpose of religion, to build harmony through justice, you cannot build harmony when you consider others faith to be incomplete, deficient or down right false, as it creates conflict and arrogance, does not acknowledge the otherness of the other, hence irreligious.
I invite people of all faiths to make that declaration, then we have an attitude of acceptance of the other and peace becomes imminent.
YOUR COMMENTS ON PLURALISM
Our Mission is to encourage individuals to develop an open mind and an open heart toward their follow beings. If we can learn to accept and respect the God given uniqueness of each one of the 7 billion of us, then conflicts fade and solutions emerge. We believe that knowledge leads to understanding and understanding to acceptance and appreciation of a different point of view.
Workshops Seminars Education News Letters
Foundation for Pluralism, Studies in Religious Pluralism & Pluralistic Societies
2665 Villa Creek Dr, Suite 206, Dallas, TX 75234 (214) 325-1916
Ask your selves, are you a pluralist?
How does a pluralist view things? If you have specific questions, please send to info@foundationforpluralism.com
Questions to ask oneself
What do you believe about the origins of the earth and man?
God did it, in seven days
Yeah, but "seven days" is a metaphor
Angels helped God make man from different colors of earth
A powerful God, Brahma, created it from a lotus flower
What is important is my role on earth, not its creation
The Big Bang
Not sure
Someone smacks you in the face. What is your response?
Turn the other cheek
An eye for an eye, you hit him back to defend yourself
Seriously, his parents didn't raise him right
Bad karma will get him back
Non violence is the best path, even if I get beat up
I don't see what this has to do with religion
There's a spider in your shower, what do you do?
Kill it, it's just a spider
Just shower, it's only a spider
Let it get washed down the drain, then feel bad
Move it out of the shower
Pick it up in a tissue and gently take it outside
Spiders eat mosquitoes, leave it
How would you prefer to pray?
Kneeling before bed
Saying grace before meals
Once in the morning and once at night
Kneeling and standing, throughout the day
Incense and an offering of food
Repeat a mantra and use prayer beads
As Prescribed by my Religion
At a Starbucks
What day do you consider most sacred?
Saturday
Sunday
Every day
None of the days
Why do you pray?
I don't see a reason to pray
Forgiveness
Betterment
To praise and serve God
To recognize the power of the creator
I meditate to clear my mind and seek inner-peace
What do you not eat?
Pork
Cheeseburgers
Meat on Friday
Meat at all
Beef
Day old Sushi
What do you think about Charity?
I give to foundations
I give a little bit every week during services
I give a percentage of my income to the institution
I give to individuals on the street
It is one of the pillars of a good life
Which of these activities gives you inner peace?
Repenting and seeking forgiveness
Seeking and finding the deep inner truths in religious texts
Praying directly to God
Yoga
Meditating
A long nature hike
How do you identify with religious holidays?
A formal family dinner with services
A big meal with lots of food and lots of people
Fasting
Thanksgiving is my holiday of choice
Offerings to my God
What do you think happens when you die?
You will be reborn depending on how you lived your last life
You will be reborn and suffer again
You will go to heaven or hell
You hope to ascend to paradise
You turn into plant food
How would you like your body to be treated when you die?
Cremation is a must for me
Burial
Lay me to rest in a peaceful place
It doesn't matter at all
What do you think of divorce?
Divorce is not possible
Only if absolutely necessary
If it was not meant to be then it is okay
Who is the greatest spiritual leader on the planet today?
Dali Lama
The Pope
Billy Graham
Imam W. Deen Mohammed
There are several great Yogis
There are several great rabbis
How do you hope your good deeds on earth will be repaid in the afterlife?
You're reunited with your family and friends
You live for eternity in Heaven
You're showered with riches in Heaven
You're reincarnated to a better life
There is no afterlife
How do you expect your bad deeds on earth to be punished in the afterlife?
You go to Hell
You do your time in Purgatory
Nothing, if you confess your sins
You're reincarnated to a worse life
Doesn't matter, there is no afterlife
YOUR COMMENTS ON PLURALISM
Our Mission is to encourage individuals to develop an open mind and an open heart toward their follow beings. If we can learn to accept and respect the God given uniqueness of each one of the 7 billion of us, then conflicts fade and solutions emerge. We believe that knowledge leads to understanding and understanding to acceptance and appreciation of a different point of view.
Workshops Seminars Education News Letters
Foundation for Pluralism, Studies in Religious Pluralism & Pluralistic Societies
2665 Villa Creek Dr, Suite 206, Dallas, TX 75234 (214) 325-1916
Questions to ask oneself
What do you believe about the origins of the earth and man?
God did it, in seven days
Yeah, but "seven days" is a metaphor
Angels helped God make man from different colors of earth
A powerful God, Brahma, created it from a lotus flower
What is important is my role on earth, not its creation
The Big Bang
Not sure
Someone smacks you in the face. What is your response?
Turn the other cheek
An eye for an eye, you hit him back to defend yourself
Seriously, his parents didn't raise him right
Bad karma will get him back
Non violence is the best path, even if I get beat up
I don't see what this has to do with religion
There's a spider in your shower, what do you do?
Kill it, it's just a spider
Just shower, it's only a spider
Let it get washed down the drain, then feel bad
Move it out of the shower
Pick it up in a tissue and gently take it outside
Spiders eat mosquitoes, leave it
How would you prefer to pray?
Kneeling before bed
Saying grace before meals
Once in the morning and once at night
Kneeling and standing, throughout the day
Incense and an offering of food
Repeat a mantra and use prayer beads
As Prescribed by my Religion
At a Starbucks
What day do you consider most sacred?
Saturday
Sunday
Every day
None of the days
Why do you pray?
I don't see a reason to pray
Forgiveness
Betterment
To praise and serve God
To recognize the power of the creator
I meditate to clear my mind and seek inner-peace
What do you not eat?
Pork
Cheeseburgers
Meat on Friday
Meat at all
Beef
Day old Sushi
What do you think about Charity?
I give to foundations
I give a little bit every week during services
I give a percentage of my income to the institution
I give to individuals on the street
It is one of the pillars of a good life
Which of these activities gives you inner peace?
Repenting and seeking forgiveness
Seeking and finding the deep inner truths in religious texts
Praying directly to God
Yoga
Meditating
A long nature hike
How do you identify with religious holidays?
A formal family dinner with services
A big meal with lots of food and lots of people
Fasting
Thanksgiving is my holiday of choice
Offerings to my God
What do you think happens when you die?
You will be reborn depending on how you lived your last life
You will be reborn and suffer again
You will go to heaven or hell
You hope to ascend to paradise
You turn into plant food
How would you like your body to be treated when you die?
Cremation is a must for me
Burial
Lay me to rest in a peaceful place
It doesn't matter at all
What do you think of divorce?
Divorce is not possible
Only if absolutely necessary
If it was not meant to be then it is okay
Who is the greatest spiritual leader on the planet today?
Dali Lama
The Pope
Billy Graham
Imam W. Deen Mohammed
There are several great Yogis
There are several great rabbis
How do you hope your good deeds on earth will be repaid in the afterlife?
You're reunited with your family and friends
You live for eternity in Heaven
You're showered with riches in Heaven
You're reincarnated to a better life
There is no afterlife
How do you expect your bad deeds on earth to be punished in the afterlife?
You go to Hell
You do your time in Purgatory
Nothing, if you confess your sins
You're reincarnated to a worse life
Doesn't matter, there is no afterlife
YOUR COMMENTS ON PLURALISM
Our Mission is to encourage individuals to develop an open mind and an open heart toward their follow beings. If we can learn to accept and respect the God given uniqueness of each one of the 7 billion of us, then conflicts fade and solutions emerge. We believe that knowledge leads to understanding and understanding to acceptance and appreciation of a different point of view.
Workshops Seminars Education News Letters
Foundation for Pluralism, Studies in Religious Pluralism & Pluralistic Societies
2665 Villa Creek Dr, Suite 206, Dallas, TX 75234 (214) 325-1916
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